Pentecostal Theology of Political Asylum in America Today

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Gerardo de Dominicis They don’t ask for asylum in Mexico but many times when they are rejected by the US they remain in Mexico. Currently, there are thousands of centroamericans and Haitians living in Mexico.
John Houston This is nothing but a political shakedown by corrupt socialist scumbags who are using these people as patsies to coerce and extort America. To cave on this would be like negotiating with terrorists. Not here, not now, not ever! Let Mexico keep them or send them back down the road they slithered up.
Marc Jackson What is the Relation to Pentecostal theology?
Scotty Searan Same thing as any other political discussion
Marc Jackson Which one exactly do you mean? How are you relating this to political theology ?
Scotty Searan Troy Day What does our President do with this crisis?  If some Christian say let them come in, shouldn’t the Christians have substance to take care of those instead of approach other Christians with appeals to give to support their cause?
Marc Jackson So far hasnt done nothing but if he is Christian he should do what the Bible teaches us to do in such cases
Scotty Searan Troy Day do not oppress the stranger.The stranger is to abide by our laws.So the stranger would not come here illegally Seeking asylum is a way to prey on American  graces.If people want to support the stranger and take them in, then do it out of their own funds.I could not afford to take another person permanently under my care.
Marc Jackson
Jan Dixon Sykes The Statue of Liberty is not our constitution.  It was a gift from France. ………………. Jesus gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan about how to treat victims who live outside our borders.  We are to put them up in a nearby inns (or safe spaces). Nothing about taking them home.
Jed Foster Well I guess those victims are just screwed if our homes are the only safe spaces….
Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes but i am pretty sure the stranger didn’t stay in the inn after he got well.  But the Good Samaritan paid the bill till he was well.These people, some may be sick undoubtedly, but the others are well.Sick people don’t climb walls.How many families could rent a home for these people to stay in fully furnished That is what you need for someone to live..We expect the federal government to. But who eventually pays the bill?
Jevan Little If they speak in tongues let them in?
Scotty Searan Jevan Little no
Timothy K. Wiebe Just saw this post on Facebook..”Yall need to stop degrading Trump…smh. Are you perfect? No. Neither is he but He’s doing the best he can. He has been trying to fix what Obama ruined. Obama tried taking God out of everything. Trump is trying to bring back God! He has Apostolic/Pentecostals who pray over him. He’s doing his best. Be quiet lol”
Marc Jackson you are off topic
Scotty Searan Timothy K. Wiebe I am not trying to belittle President Trump.If i was President Trump the people would not be on top of the wall.I would turn them away because of the illegal immigration predicament in our country.
Marc Jackson Scotty Searan what do you think the church should do? This is what our country stands for
Timothy K. Wiebe Troy Day there is a separation of church and state
Marc Jackson came much later as Ed Brewer has pointed
Scotty Searan Turn them back, because that statue does not represent the feelings of our country no more.
Marc Jackson Thousands are turned back every day Millions every year What is so special about that?
Timothy K. Wiebe Scotty Searan amen
Timothy K. Wiebe Troy Day what’s so special is that it’s not the church turning them away, no matter the fake news
Marc Jackson Timothy K. Wiebe that’s a strawman argument right there Scotty Searan never said nothing about no church in the OP which is a random rant on immigration with little to do with the situation in San Diego – BTW to this point of the discussion it remains unknown why he posted it and what does it have to do with Pentecostal theology or the church
Timothy K. Wiebe Troy Day that’s what I’m saying
Marc Jackson Scotty Searan This is our American way What are you crying about?
Paul Hughes That was just Lazarus’s opinion, it was never an official policy.On the contrary, immigration got so out of hand, with too many “poor, huddled masses” to get jobs and be assimilated, plus too many criminals like Al Capone, that immigration was practically shut down from 1924-1964.
Marc Jackson Paul Hughes were you great great grand parents owners of slaves brought to America illegally on ships? BTW Al Capone was born on January 17, 1899 in Brooklyn, New York City, NY state – product of the American Dream
Marc Jackson Scotty Searan I still dont get your point except that you dont like foreigners. Christian Republicans have always stood for open borders. This is how we came here to start with. If it wasnt for open border immigration you would be still stuck on an island eating black pudding with porridge right?
Marc Jackson With thousands of immigrants turned down daily and millions more every year, why does it seems this border scandal fake news aim to take the public eye away from the real scandal? Joseph Kidwell
Scotty Searan No it is not the idea of not liking foreigners.If they come here legally FINEBut if they are coming illegally NOI am a Christian and even in my school years in Social Studies class I asked why we didn’t have closed borders and better border security.  That was in 1968.I have written every President and Congressman  since then stating that we needed better border security.This is no knew thing for me.How can a Christian say he is for open borders and lived behind chain link fences or stronger.  And many churches abd Christian colleges have fences around their properties that are locked.Oh you say that is for the protection of my family and property.That is shear hypocrisy Then closed borders is for the protection of American property.Let a person come on the personal  property illegally they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Jan Dixon Sykes Christians stand for open borders?  The Vatican has a Wall.  The entire book of Ezra was about rebuilding a Wall.  Heaven has a wall.  And extreme vetting.
Jed Foster Please don’t use the fact that “heaven has a gate, a wall, and extreme vetting” to argue that refugees and immigrants shouldn’t be allowed in this country. Unless you’re willing to have a wall that is mainly just about decoration (Rev. 21:15-20), gates that are never shut because all the nations stream in and out of it (Rev. 21:24-26), and extreme vetting that includes welcoming the foreigner/stranger (Matthew 25:35,40), then the point is being disproven anyways. Grace and peace ✌🏻
Marc Jackson Yes Jan we know most Christians in America think in the terms of Old Testament Vatican values but that;s not what what the Bible calls for in the New Testament BTW my exact words were Christian Republicans – pls dont twist them If you have lost understanding on what a Christian Republicans is – think all early Pilgrims to AMERICA
Paul Hughes Put them on buses or a train and ship them further north to Canada.
Gerardo de Dominicis What would Jesus commands us to do? To love them as we love ourselves.
Timothy K. Wiebe Jesus didn’t get involved in stuff like this
Scotty Searan This is how I love myself.  I would not break the law of a country.It it is alright for the people to cross our borders illegally.  Then it is alright for a hungry person to break into a store and get some food or shop lift food
Gerardo de Dominicis Jesús said to love our neighbors the same way we love ourselves. The true test to love someone is when we don’t want to do it.
Gerardo de Dominicis It’s not ok to break the law of a country but even then you have to love them as a christian and show them the love of Christ.  Many of those that enter the us illegally hear the gospel in the US for the first time in their lives and that’s more important than deporting them for entering illegally.  Before being Americans, Mexicans, arabs or anything else we are Christians and our first responsibility is to love them and preach them.
Marc Jackson Gerardo de Dominicis you make me smile 🙂 Christians today are not too concerned with WWJ have them Do Scotty Searan these are NOT crossing illegally They are asking for political asylum to America like yours and mine forefathers did. This is what AMERICA stands for If you dont believe the Bible at least trust the writings on the Statue of LIBERTY – what happened to JUSTICE for ALL?
Scotty Searan 2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Scotty Searan Troy Day i am giving all i can give now, or something goes unpaid
Marc Jackson Leviticus 19:33-34 ESV “When a stranger sojourns with you in YOUR land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
Scotty Searan Troy Day yes but i have a choice and i know what i can afford.  I  am not going to overload the wagon.Troy Day if you are able to support a stranger, then do it, but don’t lay a guilt trip on those who can’t.
Scotty Searan Troy Day i do not believe they are seeking political assylum.  This is a pun of the Progressive that want to overthrow this country
Jan Dixon Sykes Troy, look up the definition of “sojourner.”  It is a person traveling THROUGH.  The word “jour” is French, meaning “Day.”  These are not sojourners.  These are invaders.
Marc Jackson I’d say give them under the care of Christians like Scotty Searan and Paul Hughes so their Biblical love be tested 🙂
Scotty Searan I have already stated I could not support a person, much less a family on my earnings,  I don’t believe God would me to do more than i can bear.My children and friends help me now
Marc Jackson truth be said most immigrants supports themselves pretty well and support a great part of American economy too
Joseph Kidwell Now I know that I’m about to slammed as a Democratic liberal who has been deceived and is in great need of prayer, but I will give my perspective. As Christians our stand should me on the side of mercy. Jesus did say that we are to “love our neighbor as ourselves.” To me, that means that as much as is possible, we are to put ourselves in the shoes of others and treat them as we would want to be treated. If I could not get work and feed my family, I would go to a place where I could and so would everyone in this group. If I was threatened with gang violence and my family was threatened as well, I would get away from it and so would everyone in this group. These Latino immigrants do not come here to live off of the government. They work hard, many times at jobs that very few Americans want, I know some of these ‘illegals’. They are good people and hard workers. Why not vet them and if they qualify, give them work permits? This was the proposal of former governor Gary Johnson who ran as a Libertarian for President who was the former Republican  New Mexico Governor. Our approach as Christians should be informed by the principles of Scripture rather than secular politics, either from the right or the left.
Scotty Searan I agree that there are jobs that we Americans are too proud and sorry to do.I don’t mind immigrants coming to America But I do mind them coming under the guise of political AsylumIf immigrants want to come to America let them come here legally obey our laws don’t come in as criminals to begin with when you cross a border without proper procedures you are a criminal and you put a burden on the American taxpayer as if we haven’t got enough problemsYes I agree with Jan Dixon Sykes take a team to Central America to help solve their problemsThe refugees or illegal immigrants whichever you choose to call them will eventually bring in more of their families by Chain migration they will take advantage of Americas gracious and opportunities but why not have seen with the immigrants if they go in and under bed a lot of American workers and the wages go down and if the wages go down the standard of living goes down for Americans yes we are suffering for that
Marc Jackson Joseph Kidwell apart from being un constitutional some comments in this still undefined OP are somewhat racists IMO
Timothy K. Wiebe He blocked me for speaking truth
Marc Jackson No one can block you from speaking truth except you
Timothy K. Wiebe Troy Day wrong
Timothy K. Wiebe Some people can’t handle the truth
Joseph Kidwell These people are not “slithering” from Central America. They are not snakes.  They are human beings created in the image of God.
Jan Dixon Sykes So go to Central America and help them.  You have a church.  Fund raise for them.  Take a crew down there and develop an oasis for them.  My former church went to Panama once a year to bolster some natives there.  I went with them. ……….. I have a black tenant who was recently robbed and we are working on an oasis in her neighborhood with a neighborhood watch and rehab program OF OUR OWN.  I am helping her spearhead it, paying for some of the cleanup.  We are to be the salt of the earth.  Salt is supposed to be sprinkled everywhere.  Not hoarded in one little place on the plate.
Joseph Kidwell I gave a common sense proposal by a former Republican border state governor who is now a Libertarian which is what you say you are. You are going to take issue with everything I say, period.
Marc Jackson Jan Dixon Sykes You cannot help these people by going because the regime there will not let you help them Gee I had you for a yankee but you are speaking like a true hick IF Joseph Kidwell wants to help them here he dont need to go He needs to bring them here and help them escape hell. The ones who should go to help them there are the ones who dont want to help them here for whatever reasons. Except those will not help them neither here nor there. So much for Freedom for ALL it’s turning to freedom for none
Jan Dixon Sykes If Joseph’s church wants to sponsor a few families with their own money, I’m all for that.  Not vote for the rest of us to fund them.  Besides, the Good Samaritan put up the victim in the vicinity where he found him.  He did not take him home.  If we are to be the salt of the earth, Central America needs salted, too.  Maybe his church folks could convert the drug lords and MS-13 gangs.  Or the politicians.  Wouldn’t that make them heroes?
Marc Jackson Jan Dixon Sykes back in the day good church folk sponsored slaves from Africa. Do you know the story of Amazing grace?
Jan Dixon Sykes Again, I have no problem with churches sponsoring families with their own money.
Joseph Kidwell I know for a fact that the CoG  has experienced tremendous growth among Latino immigrants. I assume that this is true with the other Pentecostal churches as well. They are very responsive to Pentecost.
Marc Jackson There is a general rant on this  that borders fake news simply because people dont have a clue how strong our vetting for political asylum victims is. This aint your local church welfare bank  There are legal checks and balances in place Thousands are daily turned down on this count. What the church should be more worried about is the general grant for victims of sexual crimes and persecutions. Political asylum has been granted to millions ever since and we have been fine. Now, letting perverts in for the reason of being perverted – that’s should be our focus of prayer and concern.
Timothy K. Wiebe The guy who mows my grass is, (I’m quite certain) an illegal alien. He is a hard worker and extremely diligent. I pay him in cash and he’s doing great with his landscaping business. My appreciation for him has nothing to do with wanting a wall
Marc Jackson Yes Timothy by paying for his labor you are in fact supporting illegal immigration. Except, this has nothing to do with the topic of seeking political asylum victims Another strawman… BTW I dare say I have been the greatest supporter of our border wall. I want the wall up and strict security at borders to stop ALL criminals , terrorists and the forefathers of all slave owners. One of the reasons for voting Trump in office was his WALL President, Trump, where is the wall Mexico was gonna pay for?  Two years in office and no wall yet. Major fail. Cartels already have their tunnels under the wall that is not built. No has ever built  bigger and more beautiful wall than you have not yet built. What happened? Give us the WALL
Scotty Searan CONGRESS IS THE BLOCKADEHe says he may shut the government down in September to get a wall,  i don’t think he will Too close to elections
Marc Jackson Congress is not blocking the wall They are blocking the money for the wall And rightfully so He said Mexico will pay Our Congress has no power over Mexico
Timothy K. Wiebe You think it’s Trump who doesn’t want the wall? 🤔😳
Marc Jackson Dont care what he wants or dont want. I care about what he said he will do in office and when he will do it Where is the WALL? I dont see one Do you see a wall?
Timothy K. Wiebe Troy Day Mexico IS paying for the wall. Since Trump has been in office they’ve lost tons and tons of revenue and businesses that have moved back to the US. That’s exactly what Trump meant and they knew it. They’re just not that dumb.
Timothy K. Wiebe Besides the wall is being built as we speak
Marc Jackson Not really Ask Ricky Grimsley he is in TX NO WALL is being built at ALLWe want WALL for ALLMexico is not paying for no wall – dont be fulledNo tarrifs have been raised toward Mexico On the contrary Trump is pulling for NAFTAand he will never build a wall to stop it
Timothy K. Wiebe Troy Day ok, I won’t be fulled
Ricky Grimsley The wall is not yet being built. He looked at some prototype but the only pics I have seen are of the old walls and fences that were already there.
Scotty Searan Troy Day i agree with you said.  If Joseph Kidwell wants to bring them over, he should be responsible for their welfare, not the government
Timothy K. Wiebe He blocked me for this kind of responsible thinking
Joseph Kidwell I believe that was Jan Dixon Sykes.
Marc Jackson Scotty Searan that would have been true if Joseph Kidwell could bring whoever he wanted. Since he cannot the responsibility is on the agent that sponsors them in. So says the law. A person cannot shelter political asylums government can As soon as Joseph has his own embassy in other coutnries he may be able to as well
Timothy K. Wiebe He will soon block you for this
Marc Jackson Trump will block me for the wall? oh Scotty – naah
Timothy K. Wiebe Troy Day you’re just smarter than this
Joseph Kidwell Conservatives have never been opposed to demonstrating compassion toward immigrants. However, this nativist hard right extremist group that has taken control of the GOP demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge as to what makes this country great and truly unique.
Jan Dixon Sykes We want immigrants who come and assimilate.  Not invaders who do not assimilate.
Marc Jackson Jan my first dissertation was on church leadership and 2nd gen migrant assimilation in a cross cultural ministry setting. American melting pot assimilation has not been there since the early 1980s (you can ask me why and who) For almost a generation we have been observing the rise of sub – cultures because assimilation does not work anymore. Not just in America – anywhere. It is an apocalyptic thing and no one can help it. Read Revelation it is all there. What we have instead of assimilation since mid 90s (around Bush, dont blame ol Bill again) is the so called gateway cities – American points of entrance that were designed strategically to respond to migration flow and demographic crises. It is all in our legal framework and civil infrastructure and it has been there for a while now. So no surprise to no one that in 2018 – a generation later – we are observing such cultural and cross cultural changes especially with the clear lacking of cultural assimilation One can disagree with my defended thesis of course. I presented it before just about the whole AG edu. board @ the Founders  Inn  in Regent a while back (I will have to see it to remember the year) All of them agreed and spoke in favor as far as the church is concerned. All except some aryan looking guy who was born and reared in the fields of Nebraska. He argued this was just a theory. Some 20yrs later it seems to be the predictable and predicted reality. And the church did not and is not doing nothing to change it. Perhaps it just wasnt meant to be… The world goes on
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, they are no more invaders than the Italians and the Irish who immigrated to this country before the Latinos. Now, you can tell me how much you and the nativist right love black and brown folks and how you date them and marry them, but the hard truth is, the nativist right is terrified of the demographic changes that are happening in this country. By 2050, perhaps even before, whites will be a minority in this country. That is why we see the frantic cry for mass deportation of immigrants of color. This is why we see a rise in incidents such as happened at Charlottesville. This is why the KKK and other white supremacist groups are growing in number. It’s a last ditch effort to ‘Make America White Again”. You all will vehemently deny it and call me a leftist, a (gasp) Democrat, a socialist, backslidden and in need of prayer, but I just stated the real reason why the hard right is making this push for mass deportation. It has nothing to do with the law. It has everything to do with race.
Scotty Searan Troy Day this trend was evident even in the churches people did not want to assimilate to the old doctrinal standards starting back in the 70s and 80s it was Doctrine and music where the refusal to accept religious convictions But it was cultures outside of the church that was failing to assimilate We have around this mountain beforeThe younger generations did not want to assimilate Now that they are in leadership positions they expect the senior citizens to assimilate to them and the seniors have come to the to just ride it out, because they are accused of being  to blame for the outcome of the situation
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell Tbe Irish and Italians obeyed the laws that were establishedIt is not the Browning of the culture that is threatening and and making us react according to me I do not hate Latino black people or brown people red people I don’t hate them I just expect them to obey the laws of Our Land to come to our country legally nanny of the immigration law was not on the books when the first immigrants came over here so they did not come here legally because there was no laws governing but there have been laws set to control the flow of immigration that the Immigrant should obey and the Americans that are inciting them to come over here as yourself
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan, we are called Christians.
Jan Dixon Sykes The first Europeans who came here were definitely invaders.  And just look how well that worked out for the natives.  So let’s do it again.  Bring in people who follow Sharia Law.  Bring in MS-13 “kids.”  Bring in people who are socialists. …………..  Our culture is not “white.”  Our culture is “Americana.”  Capitalistic economy.  English speaking.  Private property rights.  Dollar currency.  Judeo-Christian justice system.  Constitutional Republic Government.   …………. You want to come here, assimilate, or we go the way of natives which we invaded.  I have no intention of wearing a hijab when Sharia Law takes over my city.  And it has started.  A brand new mosque, in a disadvantaged neighborhood no less.
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, you really are paranoid. I don’t think that hardly any of these Central Americans are  Islamic. Furthermore, the proposal by Gary Johnson included a very careful vetting of immigrants and then tying immigrants who get work permits to specific jobs. Only a hard right nativist would have a problem with a conservative proposal such as that.
Jan Dixon Sykes Did you miss the “bring in people who are socialists” Slur?  That’s Latin America coming over the wall.  Besides, why would they need to come HERE?  They are NOT s-hole countries!  I don’t want a bunch of people voting for “democratic socialism.”  Americana is capitalism.
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell Christians will not tell people to break the law
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell The Islamist will blend with others and cross the border
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan, yes they may, to obey a higher law (Acts 4:19). Had it not been for civil disobedience, African-Americans would still be living under Jim Crow. I do believe that the ‘Boston Tea Party’ was a violation of the law as was the American Revolution.
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan, more undocumented come in through visa’a rather than cross the border.
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, so these Latin Americans who are escaping tyranny are all socialists? You really are reaching! However, I commend you for doing everything that you can to come up with an excuse to exclude the very people that the Statue of Liberty invites!
Jan Dixon Sykes The Statue of Liberty is not our law.  It was a gift from France with a poem on it.  If we import other people’s governmental structures, then we turn our country into the same cesspool they left.  Then there will eventually be nowhere for anyone to emigrate to!  Or even an inspiration for them to see.  ………….. If these invaders are as great as everyone contends, then they are quite capable of making their own country great.  We are doing their country a disservice from taking their best.
Jan Dixon Sykes And yes, these people vote for more and more federal govt programs because that’s what they know.
Jan Dixon Sykes
Marc Jackson MASON?
Jan Dixon Sykes He WROTE the constitution.
Marc Jackson more like took a lot of notes – he did do the bill of rights – a very masonic document but no he did not write the Constitution by himself though other masons helped him
Jan Dixon Sykes So now you don’t like the constitution!?!?
Marc Jackson Says who? I dont like that masons and other manipulators amended vital parts of it in their interest
Jan Dixon Sykes Exactly what part of the constitution do you not like???
Marc Jackson Never said I did not like the Constitution I did say Madison was a mason and did not write the Constitution but the Bill of Rights You probably know the difference  right?
Jan Dixon Sykes “I don’t like that masons and other manipulators amended vital parts of it.”  Which parts?
Marc Jackson The amendments placed to protect masons and others in their tendency to manipulate the government
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes absolutely not! They have very few government services in third world countries. You obviously know nothing about the work ethic of Latino immigrants. I pastored a church that was over 50% Latino with many of them undocumented. They worked 2 and 3 jobs apiece. None of them received government services. This is nothing but rank racial prejudice. The assumption that black and brown folk just want to live off of the government.
Marc Jackson Jan One of the many points of contention between Federalists, who advocated a strong national government, and Anti-Federalists, who wanted power to remain with state and local governments, was the Constitution’s lack of a bill of rights that would place specific limits on government power. Federalists argued that the Constitution did not need a bill of rights, because the people and the states kept any powers not given to the federal government. Anti-Federalists held that a bill of rights was necessary to safeguard individual liberty.
Jan Dixon Sykes Did you miss I married a Latino, Joseph?  Plus, I got married the 2nd time IN Belize?  Have also been to Costa Rica, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, Guatemala, and several Caribbean islands.  Never said anyone was lazy.  Said that’s the kind of government they understood. ………… One of the reasons so many want Puerto Rico to become a State is they are certain the Senate will pick up two more Democrat seats.  And DEMOCRATS vote for more and more federal programs.  The joke is that if the invaders voted GOP, the Wall would have been built yesterday.
Jan Dixon Sykes Whatever, Troy, my meme stands.  There is nothing in the constitution authorizing Congress to tax us for charitable endeavors.  That right is reserved for the states.
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell no foreigner has a right to tell a country what they must do.Yes technically we invaded America back in the 1600s and technically that was war.What the people south of the border is technically doing is declaring war and invading our country by not obeying our laws.What you are doing you are by assisting them to break the laws is a type of Benedict Arnold and you should be tried for treason.The Jim Crowe law was wrong and unconstitutional and it should have been overturned Also you are right about the Boston Tea Party and the British tried to retain control but lost, because we won the war.But those that helped the British were tried for treason
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell they are still breaking the law, no matter how they do it.  They are invaders and should be treated as such
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan, I should be tried for treason? Why? Because I challenge you hard right-wing nativists? You all are advocating white supremacy under the cloak of ‘obeying the law’. I have pulled the cloak off and that’s why you all go nuts and wish that I would just go away. But I am noticing that more people who are a part of this group are starting to come forward and check you all. Your views are not godly nor do they represent what this country is all about.
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell a white supremist because I advocate obeying the law somebody is twisting my words I do not mind immigrants coming to America as long as they come as many as want to come at the law will say and that is not being a white supremacist but if you have a gate someone to break the law and come over here yes you should be tried for treason because you are trailer because you are backing someone to invade our country that is war
Jan Dixon Sykes What flag do you fly, Joseph?  The UN flag?  I guess anyone who flies the USA flag on the 4th Of July is a white Supremacist?  Count me as a person who wants NO country to fly the UN flag.  If Mexico even flew the USA flag, I’d wonder what was wrong with them.
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan, what is really scary is that you don’t realize how crazy you sound.
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, I don’t have a flag for my house, but there is an American flag in our church sanctuary. We do have a small Trinidadian flag in our bedroom because my wife is from Trinidad. I am planning on getting a flag from the University of Notre Dame as I am a huge Notre Dame football and basketball fan.
Jan Dixon Sykes And why isn‘t your flag a UN flag at your church?  Is it a white supremacist church?  I mean, the USA has borders.  So exclusive of your Christian brethren all over the world. ………. Look, we all fly flags of our respective states or Alma maters.  But they fly lower than the USA flag.  That is why I was aghast when the EU was formed.  The EU flag flies higher than it’s respective country flags fly.  Hillary wanted that for the western hemisphere. ………………… If power corrupts, and ultimate power corrupts ultimately, why would we ever give our power to power-mongering bureaucrats who have power over multiple countries?  Heck, we can’t even trust our own Congressmen not to be bought off by some Wall Street lobbyist.
Joseph Kidwell Our congregation is 99.999% black, so it obviously is not ‘white supremacist’. We rent the facility or there would be no flag there. My God is the God of the universe, not of any particular country.
Scotty Searan White House LogoJoseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes Troy DayHere’s a good readWhat You Need To Know About Loopholes Allowing Unaccompanied Alien Children To Stay In The Country IMMIGRATIONIssued on: April 4, 2018ALL NEWSWHAT: A very small percentage of the Unaccompanied Alien Children (UAC) who illegally enter the United States each year are ultimately removed.Tens of thousands of UAC are released into the interior of the United States each year, including more than 107,000 since fiscal year (FY) 2016. Only about 3.5 percent of unaccompanied minors apprehended at the border, however, have been removed.Putting into perspective how relatively few removals take place each year, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) removed only 3,598 UAC during FY 2017, while 41,435 UAC were apprehended by U.S. Border Patrol.WHY: Loopholes in our immigration laws hinder immigration enforcement efforts, allowing UAC to enter and remain in the United States while effectively avoiding removal.In staying true to his oath of office, President Trump and his Administration are responsibly enforcing our immigration laws, including by executing immigration enforcement actions to the fullest extent under the law. Legal loopholes, however, continue to hamstring efforts to enforce our immigration laws and secure our border, ultimately resulting in catch and release.Catch and release practices have enabled the vast majority of UAC who enter the United States each year to avoid removal. Currently, based on a consent decree in a court case from roughly twenty years ago, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can only detain UAC for a maximum of 20 days combined. All UAC must be promptly transferred to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) for reunification with sponsors in the interior of the United States. Further, current Federal law prevents UAC who are not from Canada or Mexico from being promptly returned to their home countries. UAC are unlikely to appear in court for removal hearings once released, and as a result they generally go on to remain in the country.For years, catch and release has enabled tens of thousands of UAC to enter and remain in the United States. It is time to close the loopholes and ensure Federal authorities are empowered to fairly and effectively carry out immigration enforcement efforts.The White HouseLIVEJOBSGET INVOLVEDCOPYRIGHT POLICYPRIVACY POLICY
Jan Dixon Sykes So you refuse to fly the American flag, Joseph?  Yet your wife flies the Trinidad flag?  Sounds like she’s hanging on to her nativism, huh?  Cuz Trinidad has BORDERS, and all. …………. And to tell me your congregation can’t be a white supremacist church because it’s mostly black sounds like thou doth protest too much, huh? …………….. That’s how you respond to me, Joseph.  Like it much?
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan, note that this release came from the White House. Nuff said.
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, the Trinidad flag is one inch by one inch. Your second statement makes no sense.
Jan Dixon Sykes It makes no sense because I was parroting the logic you use with me.
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, Smh……..
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell no that would be your reply but they are still the president at the time
Marc Jackson Jan you dont know what you are talking about
Jan Dixon Sykes Troy, I wrote a political opinion column for ten years.  Why you want to compete with me in my lane, I have no idea.  Aren’t you guys pastors?  Don’t you have some nursing homes to visit, some jails to drop by, some sick folks to see?  I never get involved in eternal security, end times, or predestination topics.  Ya’ll can fight over those topics till the cows come home.  But politics?  My lane.  I carry a constitution with me.
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, I was a political science major at Ball State University when God called me to preach and then I transferred to Central Bible College. You ain’t that lane by yourself.
Scotty Searan ROAD RAGE
Jan Dixon Sykes Except you accepted the job of pastoring.  My dad was a pastor.  I know that job.  It means you are with your flock, not on FB as much as you are with the likes of me, insulting me for having voted for Trump.
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan LOL!!!
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, as I have told several others in this group, I don’t answer to you. However, you must be under some kind of conviction seeing that it makes you so mad.🤔
Joseph Kidwell Meanwhile Jan Dixon Sykes, many of the policies that are favored by this Administration such as slashing Medicaid has a direct effect on the people that I pastor. Therefore, I will continue to advocate for those whom God has privileged me to lead.
Jan Dixon Sykes You don’t make me mad, Joseph.  If you made me mad, I would block you to spare myself of the grief. ………….. How about you advocate for your flock to get jobs that lifts them off Medicaid?  I voted for the man who has created 300,000 new manufacturing jobs, which are full time and have benefits, after Obama snarked Trump must have a magic wand if he thought he could do that.  300,000 families.  Obama was creating part-time and low-waged jobs.  OF COURSE, they needed Medicaid. ……… Here’s a novel idea.  Teach your flock the importance of bio dads in the home.
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell I don’t blame you for fighting what you think is right.  If a person needs help the Saints should do what they can to help them.  But let’s flip the page, if you knew a parishioner or neighbor was defrauding the government would you turn them in?If they were able to work, but refused, so they could rely on government benefits, would you turn them in?We know that when the government programs are cut, the poor suffer the most, especially when it comes to entitlements.How would you deal with the runaway deficit?
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell Have you ever preached on this scripture?2 Thessalonians 3:7-137 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8 neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9 not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
Jan Dixon Sykes Scotty, I have tenants who don’t get married so they can qualify for Medicaid.  I would think a pastor would be VERY concerned if he had people in his flock fornicating and having babies out of wedlock.  That their souls would be even more important than their financial situation.
Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes 1 Corinthians 5:9-129 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of …See More
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes They all work! All of the children are covered by Medicaid! For the most part, the only adults who qualify for Medicaid are the poorest senior citizens and the disabled. In Maine for example, 66% of those on Medicaid and in rest homes.
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan by not passing a tax cut bill that primarily benefits the top 3% in this country and has already started blowing the roof off of the deficit.
Marc Jackson Joseph Kidwell the first immigrants to America were conservative Republicans looking for a city and FREEDOM for ALL. Modern day “republicans” have lost touch with what the Republic really stands for. We have always received immigrants in this country. This is what America is all about Some of these neo liberals wanna be speak like they were here before the native Americans.
Robert R. Holliday A couple of things. One poster went on an attack against Obama and the lie he tried to remove God out of everything. And another refereed to immigrants as “them.” God isn’t Republican. The bible wasn’t written for America or just western civilization. Some people really need a heart check. Speaking in tongues isn’t enough. A lot of these actions are mean spirited and hateful.
Joseph Kidwell I’ll just be blunt. Many of the comments on this tread are nothing more than thinly veiled racial bigotry.
Robert R. Holliday Cloak in misapplied scripture. Someone said 1000s of Pentecostal were praying for Trump. I wish they would have for Obama. They cursed him. I pray for every president.
Marc Jackson Joseph Kidwell Robert R. Holliday Here I go again turning attention back to the topic Scotty Searan posted in OP. Wasnt there a promise for WALL? What happened to the WALL? Will there EVER be a WALL paid by Mexico?
Joseph Kidwell Troy Day, yes there was a promise for a wall. The truth is, many Republicans are opposed to a giant wall on the entire southern border. No, the wall will not be paid for by Mexico. Finally, no one is opposed to enhanced border security. A giant wall does not accomplish that goal.
Ricky Grimsley We might have a wall if he had any support from congress.
Marc Jackson Congress cant command Mexico to pay Ricky Grimsley
Robert R. Holliday Troy Day yes it was. Someone said he was building it. Another lie swallow. There isn’t a wall. If there becomes one Mexico won’t pay for it. When refugees try to come in under Obama like these people I think 3 were let in. The talk of these gangsters and stuff is hyperbolic statements use to pander to a base and cause fear
Ricky Grimsley Well he explained that Mexico “paying “ would be in the form of trade negotiations and not them right an actual check.
Marc Jackson The article Scotty Searan has a wall. A very beautiful and tall wall No body builds walls better  Why is that wall not working?
Joseph Kidwell LOL!!!
Robert R. Holliday There isn’t a need for a new wall. But Troy Day, I am going back on hibernation.
Ricky Grimsley He has had other problems to take care of.
Marc Jackson I want my wall I voted for. Where is my wall? #HELLO
Ricky Grimsley Anyone who believes we shouldn’t protect our borders should be deported
Marc Jackson Except if the wall is to keep people in 🙂
Ricky Grimsley It will eventually be for that too. First things first though.
Bob Wizenhut What would Jesus do?  Would He support open borders with everyone taking what isn’t theirs at the expense of others?  Or would He support order and structure?
Marc Jackson Scotty What is your argument that they didnt break any law all about? Whose laws exactly ? The people you posted about are seeking political asylum without breaking anylaw as well…
Marc Jackson Scotty Searan I think you wrote the comment that when  europeans took over indian lands they broke no laws About the same time many european immigrants sponsored the illegal migration of african slaves to America. They also said to have broken no American laws at the time The Bible however says otherwise …See More
Scotty Searan It did not banned all immigration, it banned only two countries the Ammonites and the MoabitesThat did not say Barbarians could not come to America or migrate to any other country.I am not saying America is part of Israel as some teach….See More
Jan Dixon Sykes Well, then we have the words of Jesus about what to do about victims in foreign lands.  Would an INN be considered an offshore  “safe space”?
Marc Jackson and where was that INN located Jan?
Jan Dixon Sykes Near Jericho.  Right near where the Samaritan found him.  Sure didn’t take him home.
Joseph Kidwell You are comparing apples to oranges, but hey, go for it!
Jan Dixon Sykes Nope!
Jan Dixon Sykes Joseph, we are to take the SOJOURNER in.  The guy PASSING THROUGH.  The root word of sojourner is JOUR, which is DAY in French.
Joseph Kidwell Israel was told to receive them in their country.
Jan Dixon Sykes Scripture reference.
Joseph Kidwell Look, you are just trying to make your right-wing nativist perspective fit with Scripture. It just does not work.
Jan Dixon Sykes You don’t have a verse?  Where else do Christians get our values but from the Bible?
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell But we are not under the Law
Jan Dixon Sykes And, Joseph, I’m really sick of your trying to impune my character to make your case.  You use the word “nativist” like it is a slur.  It is not.  Present you case without taking my personal inventory.  It’s not hard.  Even I, a mere layman, can do it.
Joseph Kidwell Nativist is descriptive of your viewpoint. Embrace it.
Jan Dixon Sykes I do.  But we both know you use it as a slur.  Difference between saying you’re a pro social programs or pro freeloading.  Because they both describe the same position.
Joseph Kidwell It’s simply a term which describes your position
Jan Dixon Sykes As is you are pro freeloading.
Joseph Kidwell That would be descriptive of your view of Medicade, WIC, SNAP, etc.
Jan Dixon Sykes It is simply a term which describes your position.
Joseph Kidwell True, as far as you are concerned Jan Dixon Sykes
Jan Dixon Sykes Is your nastiness with me getting you anywhere with me?  Is this gentlemanlike behavior?  Let’s say everything you said was true.  Has it communicated kindness toward me?  If not, then it‘s alienating, not unifying.  Eleven comments later, you still have not given me your verse where it says Israel is supposed to take in foreigners permently and subsidize them.
Joseph Kidwell Once again, you have put words in my mouth. What part of ” work permits” don’t you understand Jan Dixon Sykes?
Jan Dixon Sykes I have nothing against work permits. ……. But I was talking about the Good Samaritan and you countered, “Israel was told to receive them in their country.”  ….. Where does the Bible say that?  Which verse?  I quoted mine.  Where’s yours?
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, so you have nothing against work permits? We are making progress…….
Scotty Searan Joseph Kidwell I have nothing against work permits either, because that is legal.  When their job is completed, they can apply for a new work permit or have that one extended.But if they have not got a new work permit or they refuse to get another wor…See More
Jan Dixon Sykes No progress, Joseph.  I’ve always been for work permits.  Just another one of your assumptions about me trying to paint me as a bigot.  My former company got green cards for multiple people who had skills we couldn’t find here in America.  We had emplo…See More
Joseph Kidwell Scotty Searan I mentioned this earlier in the thread. It was proposed by Former New Mexico Governor, Gary Johnson who was the Libertatian nominee for President in 2016.
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes yet, you ignored it when I mentioned it earlier in this thread, Progress……….
Jan Dixon Sykes I have no idea where you mentioned work permits before now.  All I’ve read from you is how we are obligated to be compassionate to the tired and poor and yearning to breathe free bla bla bla.  ………… Getting a person a work permit or green card or whatever is not “compassion.”  It is, “I need a job done and I found an employee who can do it profitably.”
Joseph Kidwell Jan Dixon Sykes, check through the thread. You will see it.
Marc Jackson Joseph Kidwell The painful conclusions of this discussion is that Pentecostals cannot offer neither Biblical nor political answer to this dilemma. Your letter to Trump touched on a very important point that I have not seen anyone in this discussion even consider per immigration. Jan Are you Pentecostal? Which church do you attend?
Jan Dixon Sykes I am Pentecostal.  Filled with the baptism at age nine.  My dad was an AG minister.  So grew up AG, went to Evangel College, and am still affiliated with my home AG church in NE, and an ecumenical group here in KS.  Have attended many churches over the…See More
Marc Jackson Jan Dixon Sykes here is the proper hermeneutics of the text you gave us about the Good Sammaritan Everyone who has ever studied a bit of theology knows the proverb of the Good Sammaritan is about JESUS….See More
Jan Dixon Sykes “But he, desiring to justify himself, said unto Jesus, and who is my neighbor?”  (Jesus tells the story and says the Samaritan is the neighbor.). And then says, “Go, and do thou likewise.”
Jan Dixon Sykes The Samaritan was NOT the innkeeper.  The Samaritan PAID the innkeeper.
Jan Dixon Sykes We are to be like the SAMARITAN.
Jan Dixon Sykes My dad had TWO Theology degrees.  Sent me off to Evangel.  I am not scripturally illiterate.
Nelson Banuchi Bob Wizenhut: “What would Jesus do? Would He support open borders with everyone taking what isn’t theirs at the expense of others? Or would He support order and structure?”Hate to say it but, most likely, like a good Jew, Jesus would practice the for…See More
Joseph Kidwell Nelson Banuchi, you have perfectly articulated the Biblical position.
Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell Thanks…
Marc Jackson Joseph Kidwell Nelson Banuchi I am clearly lost Jan promotes president James Madison who was a mason but rejects  FREEDOM for ALL to apply to political asylums thus un pledging allegiance to our flagI disagree with Scotty Searan that these people are…See More

 

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159 thoughts on “Pentecostal Theology of Political Asylum in America Today”

  1. Daniel Rushing I would love to explain it to you if you are up for it Nelson Banuchi In a lecture of mine during the Honduran crises, I showed the Biblical view of immigration, the history of immigration laws in Christendom, and gave an analysis of the situation with the immigration laws today. To make a long story short, the Biblical view of immigration is that the government should not be involved in controlling the movement of non-criminal individuals. People should be free to cross any borders and settle and do business and get hired and hire anywhere they desire, as long as they do not commit crimes. Criminals should be dealt with the same way, whether they are homeborn or foreigners. (Not deport foreign criminals.) The line should be drawn at the voting booth: migration is a right, voting is a privilege. Thus, the Biblical system is open borders and limited political franchise.

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    1. You have the lecture…written audio, I would be interested to get it. I am skeptical of this: “People should be free to cross any borders and settle and do business and get hired and hire anywhere they desire,” but I’m open…

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  2. Nelson Banuchi here are some

    Bob Wizenhut Hugh Lowrie I am greatly surprised and very amused how little you know about current politics, American history or our way of life. Perhaps yall are illegal immigrants sent to spy?

    There was at the time when Texas ranchers worked to keep the border open and helped their Mexican workers get legal papers in the US.

    In the 1980s it was
    Ronald Reagan
    who called for open borders and amnesty, and was blocked by an alliance of liberal Republicans and Democrats – although, the amnesty did pass, somewhat.

    In 1995, it was extremely liberal Harry Reid called for building a wall on the border and for closing the borders. Conservative republicans are all against Reid you remember?

    For most of the history of the US, ordinary working Americans didn’t care about immigration one way or another – except that immigration proved to them the superiority of the American way of life, people from all over the world wanted to be Americans. Ordinary working Americans remembered that they were all immigrants.

    In fact, for most of its history the US didn’t have any immigration controls; the Constitution did not grant this prerogative to the federal government. The feds were allowed to control naturalization, not immigration.

    The first law regulating and restricting immigration appeared in 1921. Even then, Texas refused to comply for another 30+ years, and kept its border open.

    It wasn’t until the 1950s when President Eisenhower used troops returning from Europe to force Texas into compliance, in the so-called Operation Wetback. Multiple farms in Texas were raided, people were murdered, thousands of Hispanics – most of whom were born in the US – were rounded up and taken to the Sonora Desert in Mexico and left there; as a result, many died. Immigration restrictions in the US have a history of murder and robbery by the government that many Christians today don’t know about.

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  3. Troy Day – I’m just a simple guy that doesn’t watch TV news. So I might miss the hysteria of the week but I’m more plugged into the analysis of what is happening. I do know that Americans have been concerned with illegal immigration as far back as Reagan. President Clinton certainly had plenty to say about the hazards of open borders. But today, the fight against open borders is being led by Black America and Bible based Evangelicals.

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  4. Bob Wizenhut we are talking about pentecostal theology Nothing on or off TV No general talk on immigration. Simply Bible and theology. What is your take on the actual OP?

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  5. Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes ignorance of real-world implementation, of institutional embodiment is seen in the immigration debate. For most – if not all – defenders of immigration restrictions and control, these immigration restrictions are some abstract reality out there, and if “we just obey the law,” there would be no problems, and everything will be alright. What is always missed is that behind these abstract immigration laws they want to see enforced, there is an institutional arrangement, and that that institutional arrangement is just as destructive to America as are the government schools. And certainly more destructive to America than any threat open borders could involve. That institutional arrangement is the same executive state of which I have talked before. The same executive state which is characteristic of pagan societies, because the Law of God does not allow the civil government to control non-criminal individuals, whether homeborn or foreigners. And every time we insist that these immigration laws are enforced, all we are insisting is that more power is given to the Federal government to control people. We imagine that it is to control only foreigners, but the real purpose of these laws is control over us, the US citizens.

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  6. Troy Day – If you are talking simple theology than why do you keep making statements like “even Fox news says…”? I can’t figure out how to get to the OP. But Evangelical Christians have Biblical teaching on their side on this one. I’ve not seen anyone make a sincere case to try to counter that. And Black America makes a strong moral case. Start with Nehemiah.

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  7. Bob Wizenhut You are again posting your regular general comments which I have read under most of your posts. Just for fun let’s take one of the most common objections of many Christians and conservatives in general against the idea of open borders (which, by the way, is the original constitutional arrangement of the US): “We can’t have open borders with a welfare state. We need to keep the borders closed until we remove the welfare state, and only then open the borders.” Taken in its abstract form, this proposition makes perfect sense; many immigrants come here only for the welfare, so let’s limit immigration by law, meanwhile work to abolish the welfare state, and then finally, we can open the borders and have only those who would come here to work. In a world of idealized theorizing, this theory is quite convincing. Let’s have a process of sifting visitors and immigrants, until we deal with the problem.
    The problem comes when we connect the theory to the real world. Who do you think profits the most from the welfare state? Federal bureaucrats of the executive branch. Thus, who do you think is your real enemy in the war against the welfare state? Federal bureaucrats of the executive branch. And now, listen carefully. Who do you think, according to the immigration law, controls the admission of immigrants? Yes, you got it. Federal bureaucrats of the executive branch. So, what is the logic of trusting the same enemies whom you are fighting politically over the welfare state, to provide an administrative defense of your fight against the welfare state? In whose favor do you think they will tilt their decisions when they admit immigrants, in your favor or in favor of their own political agenda?
    I have asked this question hundreds of times. I have never gotten an answer from those who use this argument. And yet, they continue repeating the same abstract mantra. Somehow, for most Christians and conservatives in general, the practical application of their abstract ideas has no value whatsoever. The real world doesn’t matter.

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  8. I’ve not argued that we should eliminate the welfare state. And the arguement that we should have open borders because that is how our country was 200 years ago doesn’t move me. First, its not a theological argument. And second, it is the only option countries at that time had. If you want to argue for open borders it is time for you to put a real theologically based arguement on the table. Christians are going to support the rule of law, for Biblical reasons, and I’ve not seen anyone that argues for open borders be willing to address that issue. Stop asking 100 times and come up with a theological position my friend.

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  9. Wait a minute Bob – are you even reading what I wrote? Are you even reading what you write? How is it NOT a theological argument? If this is ALL you got, I rest my case…

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  10. Sorry Troy Day – it was a very, very long post. I still can’t find anything related to theology. It appears most of your comments are an argument against a false strawman of the ‘most common objection’ to open borders. If you have a theological basis for open borders present it now in one clear sentence instead of pointing back to a previous post that talks about the Constitution, past practices, you asking people 100 times, etc. If you’ve got something, anything, state it clearly, don’t hide it in a long post of unrelated stuff.

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  11. oh WOW Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell in the last several days I feel like I am like conservative bro Trump and Bob and Hugh Lowrie are the so ever liberal CNN and CNBC

    Do I really need to go back and explained with simplicity my last several comments under this post? Daniel Rushing @robert erwin ???

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  12. Troy, why are you trying to relitigate this topic & misrepresent my position in the process? My position is NOT, “if we just follow the law.” My position is immigrants must come here and ASSIMILATE. That if our concern is compassion, then we need to GO to these countries & convert their leaders and thugs to make their countries safer. And while that is happening, we are to build safe spaces for the victims, as the Good Samaritan did for the victim he found on the road to Jericho.

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    1. The last thing the US needs to do is be the police or the fixers of the world. That’s not what our forefathers intended. We were to be a beacon of hope for all who were suffering to come to and find liberty. That’s the American dream. It’s what makes us different than the rest of the world.

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    4. Why subject them to the trials of their getting here? We need to be proactive and go minister unto them in their own languages, in their own neighborhoods, with their lifelong family and friends around them—and they don’t have to sell their family heirlooms to get here. While we are there we can set up schools to educate them. I supported such a place in India for years, haven’t you? Also a place in the Philippines. And a place in Panama.

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    5. It is easy to determine whether the motivation is compassion or to use vulnerable people of color for partisan gain based on whether one is willing to quit their job and move to these countries.

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    6. I know a lot of leftists who wear a virtue signaling badge by being FOR something they think is compassionate, but they never mentor a single victim of said cause or give a dime of their own after tax money. Now show up at a rally with friends? Oh yeah!! Party time!! But they are awol when it comes time to tutor, to hang out with, to train. I still remember buying some Hillbilly woman driving lessons back in the 80s so she could drive herself to houses to clean them. 600 bucks—in the 80s no less. Then I hired her to clean my house twice a month, now that she could drive. These opportunities are around us everywhere, but here the virtue signalers are on FB saying they care about the kids at the border instead. Yeah, kids getting trafficked, raped, exploited. But are those people there? No.

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    7. We need to do that if they will let you in and preach the gospel like our Bible teaches. Most of them won’t even let a television put in there from our country. But they need the Lord for sure. I’m not against any race or color. And we have some good ones over here. My husband had a lot of dealings with people from other countries in rental property. Most was pretty good. But you had some , as in all races. That you had to be careful about renting too.

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  14. It’s pretty bad , in my opinion. But we need to pray trust God to work everything for His good. I think of a song , the last stanza of this song , The Love Of God. Written in 1917. F.M. Lehman. They think was him. Found it written on a wall of a narrow room of an asylum. He was said to have been demented. But the words sounded like he was sane to me. The words said. Could we with ink the ocean fill, And were the skies of parchment made, Were every stalk on earth a quill, And every man a scribe by trade, To write the love of God above Would drain the ocean dry, Nor could the scroll contain the whole , Tho stretched from sky to sky. O love of God , how rich and pure! How measureless and strong! It shall forever more endure , The saints and angels song. ( But what I was saying. It will take God to bring things together again. Because I believe we are entering the last days , the Bible tells us about. ).

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  15. Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell Everyone knows I am a Reagan republican

    To president Reagan belong the words – Take this WALL DOWN

    There was a time things were simple and straight forward
    Republicans believed in no walls and free markets
    Socialists believed on closed borders and command economy with tariffs

    What are then nowadays republicans who fight for closed borders and command economy with tariffs? Henry Volk Scotty Searan

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  16. Jan Dixon Sykes Scotty Searan Bob Wizenhut

    Let;s listen to the BIBLE on immigration for once

    God give Israel NO laws for immigration restrictions, He actually put a ban on deporting immigrants. In the same chapter where the Israelites were commanded to not detest the Edomite and the Egyptian, Deut. 23, the following commandment was given in verses 15 and 16:

    You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your towns where it pleases him; you shall not mistreat him.

    As a matter of fact, you can ask Tom Steele and he will tell you that GOD himself changed the 4th commandment on the Sabbath from the first generation that left Egypt to the generation of their children And that change was namely to remember the strangers !!!

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    1. Troy Day: This was just a person coming across the border to get out of another country., in Deuteronomy 23:15-16. This was a slave. A person who was owned by another. This was no free person as these people seem to be crossing many borders. This was not a normal traveling stranger.
      But have you forgot about PHILEMON and ONESIMUS in the New Testament when Apostle Paul sent ONESIMUS back to his master PHILEMON
      Paul told PHILEMON that he would pay the charges of what ONESIMUS may have cost him.. He was also instructed to treated his as a brother, not as a servant.
      (FOOTNOTE: I wonder how many Christian businessmen treat Christian employees as a Christian employee or do they treat them as just another employee.?)
      There is a vast difference, so it appears that Apostle Paul did not obey Deuteronomy 23:15-16.
      Now if a stranger is a Christian, will they violate the laws of a country to go into a country and be willing to suffer the penalties?
      Also I believe you r interpretation about the Berlin Wall and the Communist wall is not right.
      One of the biggest MISTAKES President Reagan did was giving amnesty to the foreigners and going against the laws of our our country and we are reaping the effects of it.
      Now here is the law for the stranger or sojourner.
      14 And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord; as ye do, so he shall do.
      Deuteronomy 15:15-16; 29-31
      15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord.
      16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
      29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
      30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
      31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off;
      Here is the meaning of presumptuously:
      PRESUMP’TUOUSLY, adv. With rash confidence.
      1. Arrogantly; insolently.
      2. Willfully; in bold defiance of conscience or violation of known duty; as, to sin presumptuously.
      3. With groundless and vain confidence in the divine favor.
      A person who sins willfully knowing the consequences, in the Old Testament was to be cut off from the camp, either by being put out of the campy or stoning.
      If you don’t believe God was serious about this.
      Read down just a few more verse you will find a man was gathering sticks on the sabbath day and he had to pay with his life being stone.
      So if a stranger seeks to come into our country and does not obey the laws of our country, including the immigration , then according to God’s word they should pay for the penalty of their sin – their iniquity shall be upon them.

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    2. Troy, I have already been quoting scripture to you in our last round. First, the scriptures you are quoting are in the OT, the same OT where God told Jerusalem to build a wall to protect it from invaders. Where God told his people to be kind to sojourners, which meant people passing through, since the root word of sojourn is JOUR, which means DAY in French. ……….. I also reminded you Jesus gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan to show us what compassion looked like, who did not take the victim home, but provided him a nearby safe space. And yes, he compassionately paid for it himself, with his own money, not Caesar’s. ………….. I’m also curious, since God told the Israelites to kill all the natives when they emigrated out of Egypt back to Canaan (think Jericho), should all the new immigrants to America kill all of us and set up their own, different kingdom? That would be scriptural, wouldn’t it?

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    3. Yall should actually read the BIBLE and more specifically how GOD changes the text of the 4th commandment. I am simply speaking about BIBLICAL immigration and have made no attempt to apply it to modern day politics YET. Yes it was OT because I am speaking about theology concerning ISRAEL Yes it was slaves because to such GOD gave such immigration rights.

      Not only Israel could not restrict immigration, they could not deport immigrants either. The Biblical principle of Israel as the shining city on a hill was applied thoroughly. Come to Israel, the Law said, and be free. Come to the only place in the world where a foreigner can find his true home and have peace. To understand the importance of this specific law we need to understand the ancient world: The largest slave owners in the pagan nations were usually the politically and militarily powerful. Slaves were most often acquired in military expeditions, and the powerful of the day took the lion’s share of the plunder. For Israel to refuse to deport a slave back to his foreign pagan master meant that the master could incite his government—or he may have been the government himself—to go to war with Israel. This law spelled possible international conflict for Israel for every slave who could decide to find asylum in Israel. God didn’t care. He was very specific, and very clear: Not only you will not deport a fugitive slave, but you will allow the slave to decide where he wants to settle and live. And if you have to go to war for every slave, you will go to war for every slave. Because, remember, you were a foreigner, and a slave, and therefore, if you want to be righteous before me, you will defend and protect the foreigner and the slave. Three thousand years before the US was founded, another nation was commanded to declare to the world,
      “Give me your tired, your poor,
      Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
      The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
      Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
      I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

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    4. Here is a GREAT NT example for yall.
      “Depart from me, accursed ones,” Jesus will say in the Day of Judgment, “for I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in” (Matt. 25:43). On this specific issue, as a church, we have been paying lip service to Christ, while at the same time we have demanded that our government kick the strangers out. And then we have been wondering why Jesus is not here to bless our efforts in turning America back. Could it be that He is not here because He has obeyed our immigration laws? Could it be that He is one of those deported strangers? You think Jesus would for sure be flying the stars and stripes today, and not present Himself as a stranger to test you? Could it be that we have sealed the fate of America by abandoning our true Christian heritage, buying wholesale the ideology of the enemy? Could it be that we have been hypocritically babbling about “evangelism” and “preaching the Gospel” and “missions,” and when God sends us people to evangelize, we have demanded that they be deported, or gunned down?

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    5. Okay, Troy, please go to Dearborn and convert all those whom God brought you to evangelize. Just saw a meme that Dearborn‘s population is exploding and it just closed its last church. So they have no neighbors to convert them. Please be their neighbor. God brought them all the way to America just for you to walk your talk. I may be the only one who has ever led a Muslim to the Lord & I WENT to the Middle East where I did it. ……… And no worries about Central Americans. They’re already Christians. You need to get your butt to Dearborn. …………… Btw, American takes in REFUGEES. Not those who sneak in for a better life. That’s a materialistic decision. We should not be rewarding that by mislabeling them as refugees. We ALSO take in about a million a year who want to immigrate and ASSIMILATE. Dearborn has not assimilated.

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    6. Jan Dixon Sykes I dont need to go to no where else BUT to the BIBLE This is a theological discussion. We discuss the BIBLE not random legal and civil failure cases that you have in mind. Such are namely the reason why we defend our Biblical rights and do not allow the government to mingle in our Biblical matters. Deerborn MI and other cases like that are exactly why we dont allow the liberal civil ordinances to rule over the Bible Had we all listen to the Biblical migrant laws we would have not have Deerborn OR are you now denying what the Bible orders us to do and expect us to listen to Trump over the Bible? I have lived to see the day Joseph Kidwell Nelson Banuchi Ricky Grimsley

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    7. So take your Bible to Dearborn & convert those Muslims that God brought to you to convert. They need Christ. Please introduce them to Christ. Maybe there is even a Muslim enclave even closer to you. Please look them up and convert them. God put them in your midst for just that reason.

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    9. Troy Day Joseph Kidwell Philemon has not been addressed.
      The Good Samaritan was under the Jewish law at the time, because Jesus Christ had not became the sacrifice for sin and the Grace dispensation had not begun.
      Much of the Four Gospels must be understood in the light that they were writing about Jesus Christ and him living under the law
      But Apostle Paul set down what should be done under the grace dispensation and one example was his disobedience to the Jewish law in Philemon. What he did was building a foundation and the law should not be built on it again.

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    2. Real conservatives don’t support Trump: Ana Navarro John McCain, Bill Kristol, George Will, Joe Scarbourgh, Jeff Flake, Charlie Sykes just to name a few. White nationalism is not conservative, it’s racist. Tariffs are not conservative. A hedonistic lifestyle is not conservative. A President who sells his own country out to Russia is not a conservative. He is a traitor.

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    3. Maybe so. But President Trump is redefining what it means to be conservative. And he is already known as being greater than Reagan 18 months in. Just think of his star power after 8 full years!

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    4. Bob Wizenhut, not according to the polls. I hope you and the rest of the members of the Trump cult are ready to see a Democratic House of Representatives elected in November.#BlueWave

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    5. Joe, you know that what I said is true and its true regardless of what the polls say. Conservatism has been redefined the new definition will live on well past President Trump. This is not about President Trump but about the movement that he is giving voice to..

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    6. So did I. I can’t believe you think this GOP was hijacked by trump. And if things goes the way you are thinking. I believe, we wouldn’t have any problem getting the churches to pray. I really don’t believe you know what you are asking for. And maybe I’m wrong. But I hear when we vote for President , we are voting for a pastor. But the last time I heard the Pledge to the Flag to the United States Of America ,and to the Republic Of which it stands. One Nation Under God. So our Nation was built upon God. We should look for Presidents, standing as close to God as possible. I know and have confidence that you believe in all that. But a little mixed up in what is conservative and what is not. I don’t mean this to offend in any way. I’m not good at explaining what I mean. So I hope you see what I am saying.

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    8. Louise Cummings I like your comment and I don’t mean to go against you. But the words “Under God” was not in the original Pledge of Allegiance. Under God was added in 1954. when the last two states were added to the union.

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    9. When the Clintons got in office. They believed in anything. That’s the last democrat, that I voted for. Their morals got to bad. And they were they started sending our jobs even no one working at the plants. They sent our jobs to other countries. My son could have retired from there shortly. Not because he was old. But after so many years they could retire. So they got our jobs over there. And started sending their people from there, over here to get what jobs that was left over here to get the rest of our jobs here. Now I love these people. We have some of the sweetest you’ll find anywhere. My son started his own business. But some from the plants ended up commuting suicide. It was so sad.Another President. He is the one who has and put their children in cages. That was on Obama’s watch. But guess who gets the blame. God knows when to build up. And when to tare down. God knows who to set in place. But He also gives us choices. The way I feel about Reagan. I believe He was put there by God. Why I say that. Those walls had to come down. The Lord scattered the Jews in different parts of the world. Because of their sin. But He said in the last days. I’ll bring you back to your homeland. Well they couldn’t get out of Russia, because of the Wall. God used Raegan to get the walls brought down. The Jews went flooding back to their homeland. See God moves as he sees fit , when it’s time. But now some of our jobs is being brought back. I know some doesn’t like it. But I believe God has Trump there for a reason. And we will know as it plays out. I think one thing. He is for the Jews. I know the Jews as for the most part, doesn’t believe Jesus Christ is the Son Of God. But their eyes will be opened. And they will see. We had one President that doesn’t believe in God. As a matter of fact he was schooled in that part of the country. Or some of it. The Bible said I will bless those that bless Israel. And curse those that curse Israel. I believe that is one reason Trump is in. Is because he is for Israel. Let’s not forget to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

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    10. Louise, I agree our nation was founded on Christian precepts. Our laws are Judeo-Christian laws, not Hindu laws where we sit back and watch someone violate another, because after all, they must be making anointment for a past life, and to interfere is to prevent them from graduating to a better life next time. ……….. You are also right that it was Clinton who signed NAFTA, costing us entire factories. Trump has FINALLY done right by Israel, and he who blesses Israel gets blessed. Our jobs are coming back, perhaps as evidence of that. ……………. But our founders weren’t all so pure. So Joseph can relax about Trump. Ben Franklin was a womanizer who slept with next to every pretty woman in France. Jefferson slept with his slave. Half of them were diestist who thought, although God created us, after that, he’s just sitting back and watching. …………. God doesn’t always pick the “righteous” one, or he might get the glory instead of everyone marveling it must be God, cuz that vulgarian sure isn’t capable of this goodness. For example, Moses was a murderer, Rahab was a prostitute, David was an adulterer AND a murderer. Funny, the Democrats used to agree, when they liked Ted Kennedy, who was an adulterer and murderer as well. ?

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    12. Real conservatives don’t support Trump: #there It’s the ones with the socialist agenda of removing open borders and free market economy that do

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  18. Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes How does America compare to this Biblical principle today? Let me remind you: Thousands of German Jews were refused entry in the US in the 1930s because of immigration restrictions. And the American church remained silent. And today, the same American church insists on more immigration restrictions, more government power to restrict the movement of individuals, not to mention radical murderous measures like machine guns and military helicopters on the border, to shoot at unarmed people. Who knows how many Christian brothers we have returned to their pagan masters with our immigration laws? Who knows how many decent men and women who were looking for gainful employment to provide for their children have we returned to their poverty and misery and darkness and ignorance? Let me ask you: Could it be that we are losing America to fascism today exactly because we have failed to search the Word of God on this issue, and have sided with the fascists, as a church? Could it be that God is bringing judgment on us because we have been acting as Barbaric pagans, mistreating and oppressing the stranger with our support for wicked immigration laws?

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  19. Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell Seems like only couple of examples from American history and a simple economix were sufficient to silent the opponents of open borders and free market capitalism showing them that we the Republicans were against those walls and borders as purely socialistic and marxist ideas. Borders in the BIBLE were not meant to restrain individuals or to give more power to the civil government to control the movement of individuals. Borders were actually establish to limit the power and the geographical extent of the civil government. We already saw that a fugitive slave could settle in Israel, protected from the laws of the land of his pagan master. In Israel, the local city governments were limited in extent; a man could flee to another city if he believed he wouldn’t get a fair treatment in the courts of his own city. Cities of refuge were established for those who have killed unintentionally, to protect them from the wrath of the victim’s relatives; the legal authority for prosecution was in the hands of the city of refuge, thus limiting the power of other civil governments (Numbers 35). The BIBLICAL principle of borders was: Individuals can move freely, governments are restrained. The same principle protected the nation from foreign invaders: for a foreign invasion was a foreign government overstepping its boundaries. Few things reveal more clearly the foolishness of modern American Christianity than this inability to distinguish between immigration and invasion; and the difference is very clear, one is an act by individuals, and therefore is legitimate and allowed, and the other is an act of a government overstepping its boundaries. Henry Volk Ricky Grimsley Scotty Searan Jim Price

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    3. I like what Joe said about Reagan! Many republicans today got no clue what the Republic is all about. 30 yrs ago they would have been kicked to the curb of GOP with their socialistic ideas of closed tariff markets and Berlin wall borders

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    5. Troy Day, can you tell me what was or is there a good website that would provide me with the history of immigration, maybe from a Christian standpoint?

      Also, are you able to tell me what, if any, was the policy on immigration when the U.S. Constitution was written, or can you direct me to a website that discusses immigration historically and with specific reference to the Constitution?

      Thanks!

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    8. Git er done – hope you are ready for some ultra conservative Christian republicanism – not easy on the years 🙂

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  20. Tom Steele what is your take on the change ot he 4th commandment in regard of the Torrah immigration laws?

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    1. Troy Day:
      God was serious about keeping the Sabbath holy, as you notice in the following verses from Numbers 15:29-41
      29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
      30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
      31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
      32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
      33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
      34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
      35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
      36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
      37 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
      38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:
      39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:
      40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.
      41 I am the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the Lord your God.

      By our view of things of the man, it didn’t say whether it was an Israelite or foreigner picking up sticks on the sabbath, that was cruel and unusual punishment. Usually if an Israelite committed a crime, they would give the genealogy of the person. I have a tendency to believe that this was a sojourner. because of no ancestry.
      God even instructed them to put fringes on the borders of there garments to remember the commandments and that God brought them out of Egypt.
      They did forget when Joshua and Caleb died.
      It was not only about the sabbath.

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    2. I like this especially, “Forgetting God and His works would be a mistreatment of God, an act of injustice to Him.”

      Although specific commands to remember God’s gracious work in our lives in the past may be seldom in the Bible, it is a very important for the proper growth and sanctification of the believer and in maintaining fellowship with God.

      And I agree, forgetting God’s grace in the past in our lives will lead us to be less gracious, if not outright cruel, to those in need in the present.

      Just think about this: apostasy can be the consequence of the simple act of forgetting.

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  21. Well, bro Scotty Searan what do you think the difference is between legal and illegal? For most people, there is some kind of abstract law somewhere, and immigrants are defined “legal” or “illegal” according to that abstract law. Not in the real world. According to the Immigration and Nationality Act currently in force, all final decisions about immigration or non-immigration travel are made by two top-level bureaucrats of the Federal executive branch: the Secretary of State and the Attorney General. Of course, in the real world, these two are not going to be reviewing every single case before they decide. In reality, it is low level bureaucrats in the consulates or in some office in the US who make the decisions. In the case of immigrants, they have to be persuaded that the applicant is not going to be a burden to the society. How is that done objectively? In the case of non-immigrant travel, the consular worker must be persuaded that the applicant is not a potential immigrant. How is this done objectively? Other than direct information of committed crimes or terrorist activity (which applies to less than one-tenth of a percent of all applicants), there are no objective rules by which that low-level bureaucrat is expected to operate. His decisions are entirely arbitrary. It is on these arbitrary decisions that the difference between “legal” and “illegal” hangs on. And when you hear a Christian or a conservative say that he is all for legal but not for illegal immigration, he is actually saying, “I am all for trusting the subjective decisions of low-level unelected bureaucrats.” Certainly NOT what the BIBLE commands on immigration

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    1. Simple if you seek to come into this country without following the immigration lawful process you are an illegal. This is the secular view with a secular government and
      Talking about low-level people making decisions. Are you saying the people are not qualified though they may be educated in the process? That don’t hold water

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    3. The BIBLE has no support for low-level bureaucracy in immigration because such is simply unBiblical It is imposed by the government not GOD

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    4. Troy Day ok This is a secular society and they do not have to go by the Bible as much as we would like.
      So when they have laws that are put in place we should obey them as long as they do affect our salvation or cause us to comnit sin.
      I find no place in the Bible where it says THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY BORDER SECURITY OR LAWS.
      I find there are places where they did build walled cities to protect themselves
      I also find that they have borders in Israel between the tribes.
      I also see where the land that was given to the Levies was for the Levites only.
      YES I am admonished to not oppress the strangers
      Yes I along with the strangers am admonished to obey the laws of the land.
      If I choose to sin in disobeying the laws of the land by bringing illegal immigrants into my home, while it may be good, but it is evil spoken of, will i be able to stand before God and say God forgive me for two sins I presumptuously committed
      I disobeyed the laws of the land.
      Don’t let your good be evil spoken of

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    5. I understand your point but it does not relate to OP? We the church are in a search for our own theological perspective on these civil issues NOT what some secular government will tell us And IF those laws are unjust we The People are empowered by God Himself to change them with just ones

      Even President Trump said the same sex marriage law needs to be changed. Are you going to obey that law?

      Should have we simply obeyed Jim Crow’s law in AL in the 60s?

      You’d agree that the secular law position you defend has no Biblical value whatsoever Sure you can chose to become a slave to secular legalities, but then you are no longer slave to God alone. No one can serve two masters!

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    6. Troy Day Address Philemon, Paul and Onesimus.
      Yes we can address changing laws.
      But i would never stand for a country without borders in a secular world and we are a vast minority as Christians in a Secular World.
      I would like to see Christianity as the only religion as the Bible teaches it in our country, but to do so it would take away other people’s freedom

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  22. Nelson Banuchi Until 20 years ago, the only two groups in America who were concerned about the issue of immigration were the trade unions and a few Democrat politicians. Oh, and also, the Marxist propagandists among the Hispanics who were already here. It would be good to remember that the first vigilante patrols on the border with Mexico were organized by Cesar Chavez and his Marxist goons; they tracked Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal) and beat them up, forcing them to go back to Mexico. This was at the time when Texas ranchers worked to keep the border open and helped their Mexican workers get legal papers in the US.

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  23. Acts 17:26 King James Version (KJV)

    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

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  25. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

    Bro. Troy Day : I have lived with Hispanics as my next door neighbors most of my life. I do not mind immigrants coming to this country, legally. It is not wrong to have laws or walls if a country so chooses.
    I have read the arguments pro & con about borders/no borders or walls/ no walls but all the articles that I have read has about no walls or borders have not addressed these scriptures in Numbers and Philemon
    Numbers 15: 15-16, 29-30
    15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
    16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
    29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
    30 But the soul that doeth oughtpresumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
    I have asked for your comments on these scriptures but you keep coming back with the same scriptures, side stepping these scriptures
    Are they not just as important or maybe more so because these scriptures cover all the laws not just one part.
    There is no scriptures that says you can’t have borders or walls. It is mans interpretation
    If there is to be no restraint coming into this country then remove the constraints from your property also and sell what you have and live on just what you have need if you are going to say keep feeding the illegals and let them come.

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    6. Scotty you are mixing the terms Naturalization and immigration are two different terms. I already explained their difference throughout American history Naturalization does not mean immigration Comparing apples to oranges BTW back to OP political asylum does NOT necessarily proceed to naturalization

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  27. Scotty Searan The logic is very simple – you cannot have open markets with walled off countries and tariffs. It is not how capitalism works. But you can have socialism ~Cheers

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    1. Troy Day You are still avoiding. It appears to me you are acting like a liberal by changing the subject, to avoid answering
      Since you brought it up, does the Bible support Capitalism?

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    2. Avoiding what? I have not avoided anything per OP and have spoken straight to the issue without deviation in one direction or another. Do you mean everyone working for the well being of their family, pursuit of happiness and justice for all or what? Since you brought it up, are you implying that the Bible supports socialism? You sure sound like it…

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    3. Troy Day READ ALL MY COMMENTS I believe it supports Christian socialism more than Capitalism
      Acts 2:44-45
      44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

      45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
      Acts 4:34-37
      34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

      35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man accordving as he had need.

      36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

      37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

      The people were giving and evidently this is what Jesus wanted the people to do.
      This was pure unadulterated religion.
      The Apostles was doing this also, because they are part of the all.
      I am not pointing my finger at no one, because I am not at this place in my salvation
      And i wonder how many are?
      Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
      Evidently there was a type of Christian socialism going on in Thessalonica because of the problem of people eating and not working.
      2 Thessalonians 3:7-12
      7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

      8 Neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: (Compare)

      9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

      10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

      11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

      12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
      What you have avoided, is in Numbers 15 about the citizens and the stranger obeying the same law and the penalty for intentionally breaking the law
      The immigrants know the laws of this country, because they are schooled in many cases on what to say. They presumptuously brake our laws and the citizens of this country help them
      If gathering sticks on the sabbath would get you killed, and it evidently looks like a stranger was doing this what do you think would happen by these masses if it was in Old Testament times
      I do prefer capitalism over secular socialism and there is a difference

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    5. I still dont see anything avoided. On the contrary, already answered all of your concerns several times. You may want to interpret socialism as Biblical. As a republican I cant stand for socialism with its walled off society and closed market economy #sorry It also seems like you aint got a clue what socialism is. I would have never picked you for a socialist, but I’ve lived to see it

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    6. Troy Day I did not say I was a socialist..
      But i did give scriptures showing and you cannot deny that for a short while the Early Church was a Christian socialist society, as a matter of fact leading to the first deacons. I can’t help what has happened now in our churches and world.
      Please answer was the early church in Acts around the the Annanias and Sapphire debuncle practicing Christian Socialism?

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    8. You can ask Tom Steele about the law Max Weber answers the rest for you I, however, cannot agree with Christian socialism #sorry but thanks for letting us know your position

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    9. Troy Day Tell me that this is not a form of Christian socialism and why not. Also notice the word ALL.
      It was not mandatory
      I believe you are looking through secular socialism rose colored glasses.
      Acts 2:42-47
      42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

      44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

      45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

      46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

      47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved

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    10. Never thought about it that way but from your read it has nothing to do with socialism or the socialist order

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    12. What is to me matters little. What is socialism in the real world we live in, especially closed markets and closed borders, may be of everyones concern

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    13. Troy Day I am not saying it will work. Because it didn’t with racism raising its ugly head
      But in Acts for a short while did the church perform its duties as a socialist body of believers? If they didn’t tell me difference between what they did and socialism (everyone as they needed)

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  28. Ha ha, what a beautiful irony.
    ““I’m being treated like a criminal by the Polish government. It’s just insane,” Spencer said at the time. “I haven’t done anything. What are they accusing me of?””
    Uh, that’s what thousands of Mexicans, Salvadoreans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, etc., are asking, too. The only difference is that they are hard-working folks, while Spencer is a lazy leech. http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/395745-richard-spencer-confirms-ban-on-traveling-to-european-countries

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    2. They are the guys against open borders The irony is that they were faced with a closed border

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  29. From January 20, 2017 through June 30, 2018, the ABC, CBS and NBC evening news programs spent a combined 995 minutes discussing various immigration topics, or roughly one-sixth of all coverage of the administration. Since Inauguration Day, only the Russia investigation has received more airtime (1,680 minutes).

    The next-most-covered topic, the nuclear confrontation with North Korea, garnered 719 minutes of airtime, or about 4 1/2 fewer hours of coverage than immigration. Even in June, when the evening newscasts devoted very heavy coverage (132 minutes) to North Korea and the historic June 12 summit between President Trump and dictator Kim Jong-un, these broadcasts spent nearly twice the airtime on the administration’s zero tolerance policy and the resulting separations of illegal immigrant parents and their children.

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  30. Scotty Searan SOCIALISM:

    1. Favor only one TV media and outlaw the rest as fake news
    2. Fire everyone in the said TV who dare oppose you
    3. Fire everyone in the government who dare oppose you
    4. Meet with other world socialist leaders behind close doors
    5. Implement tax reforms that favors only the rich
    6. Create substitute/fake jobs and make everything expensive again
    7. Build a Berlin Wall but bigger and better
    8. Marry a woman from the Socialist block
    9. Marry another woman from the Socialist block
    10. Tell everyone you are venture capitalist republican
    11. Allow no immigration, emigration or migration
    12. Tax heavily all imports from open markets

    WAIT Nelson Banuchi Jan Dixon Sykes Joseph Kidwell
    What am I talking about?

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    1. Scotty Searan: (1) you deny he said #11, but your haven’t denied he said the other 11 things on the list; (2) that he did not say, as you suggest, #11, does not mean all the others are invalidated; that’s like saying because a Calvinist believes in eternal security every other doctrine he teaches is false or, in their case, “fake news.”

      (Note: This is not a matter of whether or not I agree with you; it is only a matter if of logic).

      Reply

    2. Hold on Scotty Searan who said what #11?
      I never said anyone said #11
      I was answering your question on Christian socialism.

      Are we still discussing Christian socialism or are you back on the political band wagon?

      Reply

    4. Nelson Banuchi With all President Trumps twittering it looks like he may have said or could be interpreted as saying.
      I do not agree the list take on #5 and #6
      His tax cuts did not only help the rich. I am retired. And our rsisr

      Reply

    6. Scotty Searan the fake news is that you insinuated that I insinuated something which I did not.

      The Bible calls this false witnesses and I can only presume you do not wish to be found as false witness

      Socialism was known was the Eastern Block behind the Berlin Wall namely because it did NOT allow migration of any kind. Just like in the feudal system, a peasant or worker known was attached to a piece of land or the city where born. Virtually no emigration is allowed under socialism. Read on it some

      A Christian socialism is like HillSong – just another secular concert dressed up to look like church

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    7. Troy Day no i don’t want to be a false witness, it appears as i stated.
      But you are comparing Christian socialism, as i call it, to seculat socialism. There is no comparison of the two.
      Secular socialism does not give as needed. It gives what they want you to have. I am not an advocate of seculat socialism, because it treats people as slaves.
      In reading the accounts in the book of Acts they were not treating each other differently in the beginning.
      The rich was associating with the common person and vice/versa.
      The Holy Ghost brought the rich down and lifted up the poor so they all were common.
      Apostles were given to the people what they need. Philippians 4:19 is a verse often used.
      19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
      Please give me your interpretation of Acts 2:42-47, and Acts 4:31-37. This is not Hillsong. This is Bible, black and white.
      Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

      44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

      45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

      46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

      47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

      Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

      32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

      33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

      34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

      35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

      36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

      37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

      I have stepped out of the Paradigm and gave my interpretation.
      Step out of your Paradigm and give me your interpretation.
      If I am wrong SHOW ME where I am wrong. Don’t just brush off and say something is or isn’t without your interpretation

      Reply

    1. There is a difference between Christian socialism and secular socialism p
      Christian Socialism people give freely to the church leadership and the Christian leadership gives to everyone as needed with no one having a higher standard of living. The Christian Socialist have all in common. That is the way I believe Jesus Christ taught his disciples on this earth. Why do i think so. Because of the way the early church in Acts started
      But racism and discrimination as well as covetousness raised its ugly head and they disbanded the practice over time.
      Secular socialism is about taking and forcibly making you comply.

      Reply

    5. yes you are confused about socialism – how many times do I have to show you? Seems beyond repair

      Reply

  35. Thank you for clarifying Donald Phillips Christian socialism is like HillSong – just another secular concert dressed up to look like church

    Reply

  39. She asked me to clarify Scotty? How can I possible do that? Wouldnt it be better for him to clarify? I make no difference

    Reply

  40. You said there was no difference between Christian Socialism and Socialist Socialism, but you did not respond to Scotty’s arguments, you only responded with a general statement that he was wrong. Jan asked you to clarify. I guess you are claiming that you don’t need to respond to his points, but we are supposed to merely take your word for it and believe that socialist socialism and Christian socialism are the same. Is that what you meant to imply?

    Reply

  43. Donald Phillips good questions BUT I cannot answer for Jan or Scotty You can ask them nicely I suppose

    Reply

  44. Speaking of Christianity, although many Progressive Christian churches often applaud and commend socialist principles (there is only a sliver of difference between socialism and communism), the church has traditionally, and rightly condemned this system of thought.

    The church condemns socialism because the Scriptures teach that private property is a God-given right.

    Economic systems perpetuating or constructing dependence, while also rewarding sloth, strike at the very heart of what it means to be a human being. Both socialism and communism suppress the image of God in man, his creativity and productivity, punishing individuals when they succeed, even when their success is attained by a legitimate means. Class warfare is certainly wrong, but it’s not inevitable. Moreover, the Scriptures reject earthly utopian visions as untenable, declaring that Christ is the Savior of the world and not government.

    Reply

  45. Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell it was long long ago when I first stated that the so-called “republican” liberals who stand against
    – free markets
    – open borders
    – and support totalitarian governments vs minimal involvement

    border nothing else but socialism. Months later Jan Dixon Sykes Scotty Searan are openly defending socialism as Christian and Donald Phillips is asking me to explain why so

    Well, I’ve already done it so many times that it got old. No Reagan republican like myself can ever support anything socialist, communistic or anything of that bolshevik gang GOD never ordained socialism Just read the end of the Book – we end up with theorcratic monarchy – exactly what socialism was created to oppose #hello

    Reply

    1. Troy Day I am no socialist. I am not a communist.
      Because I ask you to interpret the happenings in the early church in Acts 2,4 and 5 because you are a theologian, but you have not showed me the courtesy of so.
      Is not it possible that Jesus Christ taught a variation of Socialism because of things happening on the Day of Pentecost
      What made the people do it for a brand new religion?
      Yes I agree that God did provide for private property
      But I do not believe the Bible supports the supply and demand of capitalism.
      Supply and demand exploits the poor and benefits the rich creating a wider gap in the two.
      If I understand the laws about redeeming and buying and selling the prices were established by the priest and kept their for 50 years.
      I am not a socialist, because I believe the Bible and maybe Jesus Christ taught a variation of Socialism
      I would appreciate you quit bearing false witness on me about that.

      Reply

    1. Jentzen needs to stick with the Daniel fast. The only way they let you on cnn is if you have something bad to say about the president. He go used by the devil. He needs to recognize

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    2. Daniels fast is no fast at all. More like a diet after getting holiday fat. Fast after fat they call it – its the new fad. BUT Jentzen is backed on this one by Perry, Hill, Samuel Rodrigez and many others. Not to mention the ones that have already left the spiritual board of the President as I just told Scotty Searan

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    4. Samuel Rodriguez said the name of Jesus at the Capitol prayer after it has not been mentioned there for many many presidents WHO used Perry? The Bushes? – do tell

      Reply

    5. Perry went on and on about how Bush was a Christian and how saddam had weapons of mass destruction and all that lie. Rodriguez is a dominion theologian who counts the pope as the leader of the church.

      Reply

  47. Nelson Banuchi will be able to post your UN link on how many thousands of children are suffering in the caravan?

    Reply

  48. Thanks for asking, Troy Daniel Day II. I’d suggest:

    1. Recognizing that the church already is helping. Mexican Christians are reaching out, and Christian Hondurans and Guatemalans are some of its leaders. WE (white gringos) are not the only “church’ here.

    2. Help them…to help the weaker. I haven’t searched, but I bet if u do u can find ways – through World Relief and/or other Christian NGOS – to help them help the helpers. If they aren’t helping directly, I bet they can help u to find someone who is.

    3. Recognize that in this case our private efforts aren’t enough. Our representatives (gov leaders) are having a HUGE influence. Given this, we need to “encourage” them to DO the RIGHT THING…e.g. not shooting kids who throw rocks.

    Uust a few thougths. Hope this helps. Thanks for asking.

    Reply

  50. One thing I am realizing very slowly on the news We are told that CNN WP etc are anti-republican, anti-christian fake news Granted But could it also be that hey are porting on news that Fox news is hushing down and never mentioning. Which one is more of a fake news act?

    Reply

    2. U asked “which is more of a fake news..”.

      I answered – FOX.

      CNN is NOT “anti-Christian” – that’s nonsense. I watch a wide-variety of sources, and see no overall such “bias” in CNN. Meanwhile, I GAG when I hear the blatant Trumpaganda on Faux News. U gotta be pretty brain-dead to believe much of their obviously-made-up crap.

      Reply

  52. Fox hides most good news BBC covers it all fox=fake? I just cannot understand the lack of compassion among so many of the white Evangelicals. At times, I have wondered if we are all reading the same Bible. The last Church of God I pastored was the Milwaukee Metro Church of God located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Within a short time, we were a majority Latino congregation. Our Associate Pastor and her family was undocumented as were quite a few who worshipped with us on Sunday. These precious people worked 2 or more jobs doing work that most Americans don’t want to do. They did not come here to rape women or “steal our jobs” as Trump alleges. They were my brothers & sisters in Christ. This is personal for me. Listen, we have record low unemployment and we need workers, particularly in the agricultural and service sector. If as a Christian, your politics comes before your commitment to Jesus, then you are not truly a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Reply

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